Suebian knot

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Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 03.03.2007 10:51

I have written to the British Museum....

Kelvin Wilson

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 05.03.2007 11:25

Sorry Kelvin, for not being able to help more... :(

Thomas Trauner

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 05.03.2007 11:42

Oh, that's okay, Thomas :-) -- I assume, though, that you are just as intrigued as I am with this 'new' German portrait...

Meanwhile, I need some different help in order to possibly identify it: a translation from Latin! What exactly does this sentence (word for word) say?

'Sum figuli lusus russi persona Batavi'

('lusus' is a prank, 'persona' a theatermask... that I know)

Thanks again,

Kelvin Wilson
Kelvin Wilson

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 08.03.2007 00:11

I have just received information from the British Museum on the mask with Suebian knot:

"There are traces of pinkish pigment of the face and the hair was coloured blond. It's from the Blacas collection. There is no information about its findspot.

Description: Terracotta mask of a member of a German tribe, with a knot of blond hair above his right ear.
Height 7.50 in
Width 7.00 in

Period: Roman
Made in: Europe, Italy (probably)

Now, it is the date that intrigues me: the Suebian knot was (first?) described by Tacitus, correct? and that would be at the end/turn of the 1st century.
Then there are a few depictions of this hairstyle, if not extant examples (Osterby Man bogbody, dated 1-100 AD).
So my question is: how long, from when to when, was this hairstyle around? Several decades around 100 AD, or are we talking centuries??

Curious to hear you opinion-- danke schön,

Kelvin Wilson
Kelvin Wilson

Beitragvon S. Crumbach » 08.03.2007 08:14

There are some more scpultures with suebian knots. I will have a look on my books.
S. Crumbach

Beitragvon Bullenwächter » 08.03.2007 10:37

There is a find from 1941 or 1942 made in south Germany of a piece of a roman stone sculpture. I have to look in my files and I will post it later this evening.
Der Tag wird kommen, da wir um zu bewahren, töten müssen!
Ein "Dekmalschützer" aus Inspector Barnaby
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Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 08.03.2007 11:34

I have found a German (!) publication on the mask with the Suebian knot.... P. Jacobsthal, "Tonmaske eines Germanen im British Museum", in "Germania" 16, 1932, 207 f. Taf. 13.

Is someone out there, in Germany, able to copy this article for me? Or if it is merely a photograph, transcribe the caption...

Thank you, thank you, thank you :-)

Kelvin Wilson
Kelvin Wilson

Beitragvon S. Crumbach » 08.03.2007 12:08

I will arsk a friend of mine for a kopie.
S. Crumbach

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 08.03.2007 12:30

Thanks again, Sylvia :-)

Meanwhile I have had the Martialis quote re-translated (and indeed, it does not say 'red-haired Batavian' but 'mask of a red Batavian'!), am speaking to an expert of Roman terracotta this afternoon and am in the process of contacting the person who first noted the possible link...

Why so much effort?
Because I am in the preparations for a book on the Batavian horsemen, and if this mask can be made tangible, have a wonderful centre to the book: a very characterfull portrait where hitherto there were none at all!

I am, by the way, also very interested in the Chatti tribespeople (from whom the Batavians descended) of the 1st century BC... what do we know about their customs in dress and appearance apart from the wellknown growing of the hair before battle's victory?
Kelvin Wilson

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 08.03.2007 15:07

We should have the article in the museum. I?m shure.
Let me have a look next week.
Just let me know your adress, pm if you like.

Thomas Trauner

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 12.03.2007 19:20

I?ve found the publication of 1932... (and will send a copy to your adress, Kelvin)

Nothing really new.
British museum, Inv.Nr. 67.5 -8.664, 20a, not published by the British Museum yet (1932)
Height: 18,5 cm
whitish-yellowish clay, white paint with a "lot of pink", Hair and beard light ocre. All "nail-holes" old.
Nothing know about the provenience. "Propably Collection Blacas" (?)
Probably 2nd. cent. AD. Probably made in Italy.(polychrom)
Which "tribe" is also unknown, the knot "was used by various tribes"

Nothing what really shets some more light on this find.

Thomas Trauner

Beitragvon Kelvin Wilson » 12.03.2007 21:21

Nice work, Thomas-- thanks.
There is something new there, though: "...white-yellowish clay". I spoke to terracotta expert last week and she said that orange clay meant it was produced in south Europe, yet that white clay would put its production in north-western Europe.
That's interesting as it makes it more than just 'an alien charicature'....

Thanks again-- looking forward to the copy! Kelvin
Kelvin Wilson

Beitragvon S. Crumbach » 13.03.2007 08:17

My I get a kopie, too, Thomas?
S. Crumbach

Beitragvon Thomas Trauner » 13.03.2007 10:20

No problem, Sylvia.

Kelvin- Jacobsthal just states, that the "mask" is italien-made, because it?s polychrome. No polychrome thing like that in trans-alpine roman empire ( 1932)
He dates it into the II.Cent, because he thinks it looks like the "Germanic heads" of the Trajan column.

It?d say: Roman art-historians to the front ! Count the locks ! :D :D

Thomas Trauner

Beitragvon Nika E.S. » 14.03.2007 00:00

Another german publication... ... 697870.pdf

Hanelore Rose... Dissertation.

There is also the translation from the latin sentence:

Persona Germana. Sum figuli lusus russi persona Batavi. quae tu derides, haec timet ora puer.

"Germanische Maske. Scherz eines töpfers bin ich, eines blonden Batavers Maske, du belachst mein Gesicht, aber dem Kind macht es Angst."

"Germanic Mask, joke of an potter i am, mask of a fair batavian, you laugh about my face, but the child makes it fear."

or seomething like that... the latin german is difficult to translate to english elegantly...
"Es wäre besser, die Regierung setzte das Volk ab und wählte sich ein Neues."
Bertolt Brecht
Nika E.S.
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