Iberische Falcata

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Iberische Falcata

Beitragvon Nika E.S. » 05.02.2006 00:11

Bild
von: http://home.yawl.com.br/hp/sedycias/historia03b.htm

Auf der Suche nach Falcatas bin ich darauf gestossen...
Ein Iberischer Fund, soweit ich aus einer anderen Quelle noch weiß um ganz grob 500 BC... aber leider ist mein spanisch ganz schlecht... ich könnte auch was verwechseln...

Fig. 23. Falcata ibérica.

Vasijas cerámicas (Fig. 24) que en las tumbas más ricas son de gran valor artístico y técnico. En muchos casos aparecen piezas de importación griegas o sus imitaciones. Cráteras y kílikes, junto a vasos más sencillos, representan escenas de rituales griegos y son en si mismas utilizadas en el "symposio" o banquete mortuorio (Sala XIX, vits. 7 y 17).

Piezas exóticas procedentes del comercio exterior, fenicio y griego. Objetos tradicionalmente apreciados como la Dama de Galera (Sala XIX, vit. 17): representa la diosa de la fecundidad que participa en la libación recogiendo en la pátera que sujeta con sus manos el líquido sagrado que entra a través de su cabeza hueca y sale por sus pechos perforados. Vemos aquí cómo el mundo ibérico adopta la idea mediterránea de hacer participar a sus dioses en lugares humanos, como divinidades benévolas dentro de los ritos consoladores de la muerte. Ungüentarios de pasta vítrea (Sala XIX) valiosos tanto, por su contenido como por su propia forma.


Weiß da wer mehr, oder kann wer spanisch?
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iberische falcatas undsoweiter

Beitragvon turanclancath » 05.02.2006 01:08

V.E.-Weapons: the foundations of power.
The abundance of weapons in Iberian burials is arguably the best indicator of the profound changes that took place between the Orientalizing/Early Iberian period and the later phase. As we have already seen, from the last decades of the 5th century BC (c. 425-410 BC) onwards the percentage of burials with weapons rose sharply. Perhaps the site at Cabezo Lucero in Alicante (Aranegui et al. 1993) is the best example of the dramatic rise in the number of weapons from c. 425 BC. During the 4th century BC this pattern became the norm, and between 25-45% of burials with weapons is a normal figure in the Southeast Iberian cemeteries (see Figure 13), such as Cabecico del Tesoro (Quesada, 1989) or Cigarralejo (Cuadrado, 1989).
Thus, while weapons had been rare during the Orientalizing and Early Iberian period and mostly limited to princely or very rich burials, during the 'Iberico Pleno' in the 4th century BC the right -or custom- of carrying weapons into the grave became much more extended, including wider -lower- segments of the population. Another significant fact is that weapons are now often found grouped into coherent panoplies: the simpler ones consist of falcata sword, round shield and two spears; the complex ones may also contain a helmet, soliferreum and dagger. It is not uncommon, however, for the concept of wealth through accumulation observed when discussing Attic pottery and other grave goods should also lead to the stockpiling of weapons: it is thus possible to find three or more spearheads, two swords and even, very occasionally, two shields in a particular burial, therefore disturbing the original 'functional' or 'coherent' panoplies.
Thus, on the one hand, the richer Iberian burials had a distinct 'military' appearance during the 4th century BC as complex sets of weapons -often decorated with silver inlay motifs- represent a considerable part of the grave goods; on the other hand, weapons also became common in poorer burials.
It has in fact been proved that burials in all wealth groups contain weapons, but that while nearly all of the very rich burials contain them, only a small proportion of the poorer groups have weapons, and these are usually simple panoplies without daggers, helmets and other elements of the richer assemblages (see Quesada, 1994b:Fig.5). It can also be proved, however, that burials with weapons are on the whole considerably richer than those without them, and that this is the case even if the weapons themselves are not taken into account when calculating the figures for wealth deposited in the different categories of burials. In a society much more involved with weapons than before, it seems that these differences in wealth must also mean differences in social status, an idea confirmed by the fact that the pattern of deposition of weapons tends to coincide with that of imported Attic pottery, the other great indicator of status and wealth (see Quesada, 1989, 1994b, Santos Velasco 1994 and especially 1989:83-85).


Hier etwas ueber Spanische Falcatas beerdigungen unsw
Der ganze link folgt gleich.

http://www.ffil.uam.es/equus/warmas/onl ... ualid2.htm


Gruss aus Holland.
Don Turan :):):)
turanclancath
 

nog etwas ueber iberische falcatas

Beitragvon turanclancath » 05.02.2006 01:19

The most well-known weapon of the iberos is the famous falcata.
Falcata found in Almenedilla, Cordova. One of the best one conserved examples of this beautiful Spanish sword.Bild



The falcata is a weapon of Spanish origin, in fact is a streamlined type of gladius Roman hispaniensis or gladius, that after the arrival from Rome to Spain happened to comprise of the Roman fighting equipment. The leaf of the falcata approximately measures about 45 cm. in length, that is to say, the length of the arm. In fact there were not two equal falcatas, since these valuable Roman swords made of order, reason why each one had measures according to the arm of his sir.

In all Mediterranean the quality of these arms, made with an iron mineral was admired of highest purity. Its flexibility was so that the armorers placed it on their heads doubling them until the end and the grip touched their shoulders. If the Roman sword returned to its straight position when loosen it of blow were an art work, if it were not fused to return to make it. Greek that arrived at Spain took the falcata with himself and had great acceptance, becoming the second used weapon more after the hoplita sword.


Und hier ist der Ganze Link.Bild folgt auch

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/iberian-falcata.htm

Und Bitte nicht achten auf die Abbildungen von Angus Mc.
Bride.
Hans ( oder Peter ) hat schon geschrieben in Visuelle Darstellung( Kelten ) das Mc.Bride viel fantasy hat.
Es geht um denn Falcata Text in link.
Don Turan :):):)
turanclancath
 

Falkata Replika

Beitragvon turanclancath » 05.02.2006 09:44

http://swordforum.com/swords/deltin/dt-falcata.html

Wie produziert mann eine Falkata Replika.
Don Turan :):):)
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Beitragvon Turms Kreutzfeldt » 06.02.2006 18:41

Hm, Ferro, der Text unter Deinem Bild handelt von gr. Keramik etc., aber auf die Schnelle sehe ich da keinen Zusammenhang zur Falcata evt. sind Don Turans engl. Texte hilfreicher für Dich. Gab es in der Quelle noch einen anderen Text zu dem Schwert.

P.S.: Wurde überhaupt ein off. Antragsformular ausgefüllt, eine Erlaubnis sich in die iberischen Angelegenheiten einzumischen :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ich bin der Schleuderer, der stets aufschreit und das mit Recht, denn alles was nicht schleudert, ist wert das es auch untergeht, so ist denn alles, was ihr Schleudern nennt, mein eigentliches Element...
nach Hildegunst von Mythenmetz, Erinnerungen
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uebersetzung falcata tekst

Beitragvon turanclancath » 07.02.2006 10:28

Hier ist eine Babelfisch uebersetzung ( nicht perfekt ) dess Falcata Textes.
Der Text ist gerade ueber die Falcata Abbildubg es ist dass fragment ueber Tomba Galera.
Neben die Falcata handelt der Text ueber Keramik.

Gruss am grauen Morgen aus Holland.
Don Turan :):):)






English:
. 22, Ajuar of a tomb of Galera. Some tombs were characterized, to have pillars or wakes finished off by animals of apotropaico character and funeral sense, that they defend and they protect the sacred place. They are zoomorfas sculptures that represent mythical bulls, lions or animals like faucets or esfinges (esfinge of Agost, the Aqueloo known like "Bicha" of Balazote) (Room XX, vits. 7 and 11). The variety of ajuares (fig 22) deposited in these tombs indicates the differences of spending power and social status of the people who composed the Iberian society. Between its more common materials they emphasize: Arms (soliferrea, falcatas (fig 23), shields...): its presence has been interpreted traditionally like pertaining to the buried soldier, but this relation not always is exact as it demonstrates the tomb of Lady of Trick (Room XX, vit. 6), whose rest pertenen, apparently, to a woman. Cases as this one speaks of the remarkable social consideration that some women in this society enjoyed. Fig 23, Iberian Falcata
turanclancath
 

exellentes spanisches Falkata artikel

Beitragvon turanclancath » 07.02.2006 14:17

http://www.ffil.uam.es/equus/warmas/armarito/ritos3.htm

Exellentes Falcata artikel aus 2001.
Ueber Funde Zeremonielwert
Religieuse Bedeutung uns.
Leider in Spanisch.

Don Turan :):):)


Und hier die Inhalts Einfuehrung des artikels ubersetzt mit Babelfisch

and RITES OF SACRIFICE the text is a version of chapter 9 of the book of Fernando Quesada Sanz the falcata. Weapon and old symbol of the Iberos, that will be published by the Aldebarán publishing house, being predicted its publication in May of 2001. We presented/displayed an advance here. We sent to this work for greater details and bibliographical apparatus. INDEX: Of how the Iberos they transformed kopis and they created the falcata But why? Possible causes of the adoption and transformation of machaira funeral Contexts of appearance of the Iberian falcata ritual Putting outs of action the falcata, symbol of being able and wealth Arms in sanctuaries the small falcatas? votive offering machaira in Greece and Italy and the ritual sacrifice ` knife afalcatadó and the falcata: sacrificiales connotations
turanclancath
 

Deutsches Festschrift artikel 2004 ueber Die Falkata.

Beitragvon turanclancath » 07.02.2006 14:29

Inhaltsverzeichnis: [IA 1] Festschrift für Wilhelm Schüle zum 60 ...
Les amphores des les mines antiques du Sud de la Gaule et de la Péninsule
Ibérique (99-125). ... Zur Herkunft des eisernen Krummschwertes, der ?falcata?. ...
www.vml.de/d/inhalt.php?ISBN=3-924734-02-1 - 24k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's .

Deutsches Festschrift Artikel ueber Die Falcata.


William.S.Kurtz. Seite 201-224

Don Turan :):):)
turanclancath
 

Greetings and translation

Beitragvon Maridel » 07.02.2006 18:46

Hello everybody.
My great friend Don Turan has introduced me to this interesting forum and I am delighted to cooperate with an enhancing of the translation of the Spanish text about the "Tomb of Galera" (Spanish is my native language):

Some tombs were characterized by pillars or wakes finished off by animals of apotropaic (like sentinels, warding off) character and funeral sense, that defend and protect the sacred place. They are zoomorphic sculptures that represent mythical bulls, lions or animals like griffin or sphinx (sphinx of Agost, the Aqueloo known like "Bicha" of Balazote) (Room XX, vits. 7 and 11). The variety of objects (fig 22) deposited in these tombs indicates the differences of spending power and social status of the people who composed the Iberian society.
Between its more common materials we can find: Arms (soliferrea, falcatas (fig 23), shields...): its presence has been interpreted traditionally like belonging to the buried soldier, but this relation is not always exact as it demosntrated in the tomb of Lady of Baza (Room XX, vit. 6), whose remains belong, apparently, to a woman.
Cases like this speak of the remarkable social consideration that some women enjoyed in this society. Fig 23, Iberian Falcata

Note: Bicha isa fantastic animal with breast of woman, paws with claws, wings, present too in the Spanish baroque decorations. Bicha is also an animal of the folk tales, to scare children.

Saludos desde Mexico
Maridel
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Beitragvon Nika E.S. » 25.03.2006 12:50

Erst noch mal Danke für die Übersetzung!
Thank you very much for translating!!!!

Und an Turms:
[ironiemodus]
8) Ich hör ja schon auf mich bei den Iberern einzumischen... ich hab jetzt bei den Griechen recherchiert, das kann mir (noch) keiner verbieten... :oops: :roll: :D
[/ironiemodus]
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Beitragvon Turms Kreutzfeldt » 25.03.2006 20:13

oh, Vorsicht Ferro, die ersten Griechen kommen schon ... :lol:
Ich bin der Schleuderer, der stets aufschreit und das mit Recht, denn alles was nicht schleudert, ist wert das es auch untergeht, so ist denn alles, was ihr Schleudern nennt, mein eigentliches Element...
nach Hildegunst von Mythenmetz, Erinnerungen
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Beitragvon Nika E.S. » 25.03.2006 21:35

:)
Deswegen in Klammern das 'noch'
8) 8) 8)
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Beitragvon Kallimachos » 27.03.2006 19:29

Ferro hat geschrieben::)
Deswegen in Klammern das 'noch'
8) 8) 8)


:lol: das wird dir von uns auch keiner verbieten Ferro.
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Beitragvon Turms Kreutzfeldt » 14.04.2008 07:59

So, ein Falcatafund aus der Nähe von Àvila (Zentralspanien, Sierra de Gredos).
Bild
Leider völlig unprof. vergessen, Zeit und Fundort genau zu notieren. kann evt. nachrecherchiert werden. Ich war halt zu sehr in Urlaubsstimmung und die Kinder nörgelten schon:
"Nicht jeden Fund eine halbe Stunde anschauen, Papa"
Ich bin der Schleuderer, der stets aufschreit und das mit Recht, denn alles was nicht schleudert, ist wert das es auch untergeht, so ist denn alles, was ihr Schleudern nennt, mein eigentliches Element...
nach Hildegunst von Mythenmetz, Erinnerungen
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